| Posted By |
Message |
| dmitchell |
|
|
LOL! The Dynamat at FS and BB is pretty expensive too. Like everything they sell, overpriced crap.
|
| N1ck |
|
|
Yup, I agree. Out of all the companies that are going out of business in the next year or so such as Sears, RIM and more, I am cheering for Best Buy and Future Shop the most. I may even throw a party in celebration for their extinction. I will even make up "Best Buy Sucks a$$" shirts for my daughter and dog. It will be the greatest party ever!!! LOL!
Picking up another StraightWire Green Lightning Power Cable this Saturday.
Question about EMI/RFI. Could a high end Power Regulation system such as the sub 600 dollar and up units from Panamax help this? I know its never recommended to plug you amp into a Power Conditioner, but what if its a really really good one? One that would correct a deformed sign wave, regulate the voltage to a steady 120, properly shield and ground it? Would this not be beneficial to any component? I know power supplies in most amps already do some of this to a certain extent but how well?
|
| N1ck |
|
|
These looks cool.
http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/648997130-qualitt__ball_bearing_isolation_system/
|
| JanVigne |
|
|
Pretty pricey for something you should be able to duplicate diy for about a fifth of that price. Do you understand the principle of the device?
|
| N1ck |
|
|
I think so. Based on what appears to be a device that allows your component to "float", preventing vibration from outside sources and perhaps reducing the inner mechanical vibration as well. ? Or I could be wrong altogether on that. But that's what I would assume that is what is trying to be accomplished.
58 dollars seems cheap to me if I do not have to try to cut and drill aluminum. haha. I do not have the proper tools to make these.
|
| Dan |
|
|
I've considered those as well, Nick. And I agree, given what one can spend in this hobby, $58 doesn't seem like much for a nicely finished product that I cannot do myself, especially if it works.
Here's another item that I have noticed, they are silicone footers:
[urlhttp://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/648992644-speaker__amplifier_isolation_footers/][/url]
I think Jan's advice is sound of course. Learn what the device does first so that you know what is likely to work best for you. I wouldn't have a clue, tbh!
|
| Dan |
|
|
Sorry, here's the link:
http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/648992644-speaker__amplifier_isolation_footers/
|
| JanVigne |
|
|
OK, Nick, do you understand the idea of how to get the component to "float" using that particular footer?
Do you remember your high school geometry?
|
| JanVigne |
|
|
And the question for you, Dan, is applicable to your footer suggestion.
Normally, compliant materials are not suggested between a loudspeaker and its supporting surface. Any idea why that footer you linked to might be a bad choice for a speaker?
And for both of you, what made you select your specific device as looking interesting? I'm trying to understand how you go through a catalog or website to pick items which might be beneficial so I'm looking for your reasoning process here. Is it just that the user reviews seemed positive?
|
| Dan |
|
|
Jan, yes, it's mostly the writeup. Like you said though, investigate first before buying (though he does offer a refund if you return the footers).
My guess on why the footer might not be ideal for a speaker is that would store energy, rather than dissipate it quickly away from the speaker. I think those footers might be more ideal under an amp or CD player, where the vibrations it has to deal with are much smaller in magnitude. However, I think the product Nick linked to might be superior, as it both isolates and dissipates at the same time. Dissipates as it isn't compliant, but isolates as it is flexible (yes, I did a bit of Google-ing!).
Though I have to say, I am unsure how the device can differentiate from vibrations that it should let pass (i.e. vibrations from above) and those that it should stop (vibrations from below or from the side). Actually, I notice that one argument for them is that they stop vibrations from the side very well (for example, vibrations caused by a speaker's output), but they cannot stop vibrations from the bottom. Perhaps this is where a compliant material is required. Perhaps that material should be built into the stand that the components sit on.
|
| dmitchell |
|
|
"Do you remember your high school geometry? "
Jan, I'll be the first to admit I don't remember high school geometry. How does it come into play?
|
| N1ck |
|
|
I am with Dave Jan, I haven't used Geometry since High School. I am guessing something circular would allow vibrations to pass over it less effecting its surrounding objects??? That may be way off. lol.
I picked that product as it was a hand made product from a fellow Ontario fellow trying to make a few bucks. Also although if I wouldn't cut my own arm off trying to cut Aluminum bars, it would be cheaper to make, I will let someone more handing with a saw make them for me. lol. Also it appears he takes a good amount of time to polish them making them pretty, which is another reason I like them. They would pass WAF. And of course, giving the design, I feel they would work.
|
| JanVigne |
|
|
OK, allow me to provide some assistance and then tell me what comes to mind when you look at the ball bearing resting against two solid surfaces; http://www.mathopenref.com/tangentline.html
How might that concept affect the performance of an audio system?
|
| Dan |
|
|
I saw a product like the one Nick linked to at a dealer. It was the Symposium Rollerblock, I believe. Same idea. The component on top of the metal discs and bearing actually floats. When you touch it it kind of bounces around from side to side. The top disc is moving around on the ball while the bottom disc stays still against the rack it is sitting on. I guess the discs maintain a tangent with the ball bearing at all times.
|
| JanVigne |
|
|
http://www.sciencebuddies.org/science-fair-projects/project_ideas/ApMech_p040.shtml
Nothing to do with the ball bearing device, just another method which can be diy'd reather easily with good results using off the shelf materials. Great results from constrained layer damping, the sort used in the aircraft and automotive fields, come from hi-tech materials and lots of CAD assistance. Good gets you 90% of the way at 1/100th the cost. Many audio aftermarket isolation platforms and turntable plinths are built using constrained layer damping. The original Well Tempered Turntable plinth was constructed of three layers of MDF bonded by a very thin layer of GE silicon adhesive. Very inert when put togther, the materials are all available at any home improvement store where they will cut the material for you. You can substitute or alternate damping layers of felt, cork, expanded foam board used for posters and available at any craft store or a thin rubber mat which is normally used as a drawer liner in the kitchen or as a material to hold down work pieces in a woodworking shop. Any of those materials are available for about $1 per 2'X2' roll. With CLD you want the thinnest compliant layer of material you can manage. While the technical concept of CLD is to have sheer forces which act to cancel resonance, just think of building layers of materials with different densities and, therefore, different resonant frequencies which, when placed on top of each other and spearated by a thin compliant sheet will not easily pass any single band of resonances from one material to the next. Cork is an excellent between layers material for this sort of platform and very inexpensive plus being easy to work with.
You can also add this to your existing shelf in your equipment rack as a diy. If you need to dress this up a bit, head to the office supply store and take a look at their legal pad size paper trays. These can also be the base for a diy sandbox isolation platform, just ask the cutter at the home improvement store to cut you a piece of MDF just slightly smaller than the inner dimensions of the tray. But then any box you find attractive enough for WAF could work in either situation.
|
| JanVigne |
|
|
"I saw a product like the one Nick linked to at a dealer. It was the Symposium Rollerblock, I believe. Same idea. The component on top of the metal discs and bearing actually floats. When you touch it it kind of bounces around from side to side. The top disc is moving around on the ball while the bottom disc stays still against the rack it is sitting on. I guess the discs maintain a tangent with the ball bearing at all times."
Symposium markets a roller type device for isolation. There have been several such devices over the last decade. As I said, a lot of audio aftermarket ideas are simply taken from another successful idea. How do you patent a ball bearing in a cup? So, have you figured out what the concept of the tangent has to do with isolating an audio component?
Here's another application of the tangential contact area applied to a soft ball; http://gingkoaudio.com/cloud12.html
I'll give Gingko their claim they have "scientifically selected" balls and not just racquetballs that you can buy at Target 10 for $7 in the sporting goods department. They come in a mesh bag with a drawstring that you snug up and toss under your component for a trial to determine whether this might be a good solution to a problem. If it is, then you can dress this up any way you prefer or you can spend the money for the actual Gingko platform. But, again a diy cost of less than $10 can get you an isolation device that is at least 90% of Gingko's at less than 1/10th the cost.
Here's Gingko's Mini Cloud; http://gingkoaudio.com/minicloud.html
Here's a cheap cup to hold a racquetball; http://www.jbprince.com/pc_combined_results.asp?search_prod=(searchlike~p.nm~condiment%20cup|Or|searchlike~p.ds~condiment%20cup|Or|searchlike~p.sku~condiment%20cup|Or|searchlike~p.opt3~condiment%20cup|Or|searchlike~p.opt5~condiment%20cup)|and|&search_keyword=condiment%20cup
Or take your pick of cups; http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/catalog/servlet/Search?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&keyword=furniture%20cups&Ns=None&Ntpr=1&Ntpc=1&selectedCatgry=SEARCH+ALL#/?c=1&Nao=1
|
| JanVigne |
|
|
http://www.symposiumusa.com/rollerblocks.html
Others have changed the idea around a bit to have three balls resting in the cup with one ball on top which fits underneath the component. The idea still works due to tangential contact area.
http://www.gcaudio.com/cgi-bin/store/showProduct.cgi?id=623
|
| JanVigne |
|
|
Anyone understand the principle of "mass loading"?
http://www.npl.co.uk/reference/faqs/what-are-the-differences-between-mass,-weight,-force-and-load-(faq-mass-and-density)
|
| JanVigne |
|
|
http://www.musicdirect.com/p-7603-stillpoints-stillpoints.aspx
|
| JanVigne |
|
|
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue27/stillpoint.htm
|
